For some of us, suicidal thinking and perhaps even a history of attempts are part of the mental illness experience. What I wanted to discuss in this post is how much of that suicidality is focused inward and how much relates to our place in our social world. That’s rather vague, and this post’s title is even vaguer, but to get more specific with it, consider how you might answer these questions on a typical occasion when you’re feeling suicidal:
- If someone you cared about said that the world is definitely better with you in it and they want you to stay alive, and you were magically able to know that they sincerely meant it, would that change anything for you?
- Do you think others would be traumatized by your death?
- Do you think the important people in your life would be better off without you?
When I’ve been suicidal before due to my depressive illness, it’s tended to be very self-oriented. When I’ve wanted to die, it was because I felt like my life was unlivable; what other people might think about it really didn’t factor into the equation. My answers to the above questions would be:
- It would make no difference because that would have no bearing on the livability of my life.
- Yes, absolutely. In particular, I’d be concerned about the effect it would have on my brother.
- No, mostly because of the answer to question #2.
I’ve never been impulsive with my suicidality, and part of that is that there’s reasonably strong extrinsic motivation to continue living that can carry me through any urges that might pop up. I know it would hurt my family if I were to off myself, and I can hold onto that, at least for a while, after I’ve lost all intrinsic motivation to stay alive. When I’ve made suicide attempts in the past, it was because the unlivability factor had come to greatly outweigh the desire to avoid hurting others.
Perhaps that’s why calling a crisis line never feels like a useful exercise for me personally. Talking and being listened to by someone who’s trying to be empathetic doesn’t do anything to change livability. Talking to someone who says they would like me to stay alive changes nothing, because their desire for me to be alive is irrelevant to me in that context.
I don’t recall ever having the feeling that other people would be better off without me, although it’s quite possible that I have felt that way before and just don’t remember it. I think that, for me, it’s more along the lines of “they’ll get over it,” and that getting over it would easier for them than continuing to live would be for me. Other people being better/worse off is more of an afterthought, though; it’s not a motivating factor for the suicidality.
So, that’s me. If you’ve ever experienced suicidality before, how would you answer those three questions, and why?
The Straight Talk on Suicide page has crisis and safety planning resources, along with info on suicide-related topics from the perspective of someone who’s been there.
I have no idea why WP doesn’t want to actually show the contents of this post in the Reader…
Great topic, thank you! The best line I’ve heard in a while regarding my suicidal ideations was something to the extent of .. it’s not that I want to or care to die. It’s that I don’t want this version of myself to keep living…
I really like that.
I can relate to a lot of what’s here. 💚
((WP is an odd duck at times))
I like that line too. 💕
I just read and liked the actual post, outside the reader, but I’ll comment here. Before my daughters, I had many thoughts of suicide, though only once did I formulate any kind of plan (age 24). It didn’t work out because of a silly reason, though I can’t say if I would have gone through with the whole thing anyway. Since my daughters, all I have to do is think of them and any possible thought of suicide immediately vanishes. It would utterly devastate them. That isn’t to say later on if I have an incurable illness and am in constant terrible pain, things might change. But that’s different from just feeling life is unbearably pointless…
Yeah, I think it’s got to be a lot harder for people who don’t have any meaningful external sources of a point to life.
Suicide is a thought of self-helplessness
I find much in common with your description. When I’m suicidal, not just struggling with ideation, I tend not to think about other people much, in that they mostly don’t factor into my decision-making. With regard to question one, when I’m like that, I don’t believe them when they say I have value or things like that.
If pressed, I’d say, “of course they’d be upset,” but aside from breaking my son, that doesn’t hold me back. It’s my son that keeps me here now. He’s the most important person and thought I’ve still gotten close, it was the thought of what it would do to him that had me fighting back.
I also don’t know that I think people would be better off without me. I don’t think about suicide that way. It’s mostly about the unbearability of persisting.
I think that unbearability of persisting part doesn’t get addressed enough in all the talk about suicide prevntion. It’s all well and good to say “no, don’die”, but unless there are tangible ways to make things more bearable, it’s all rather hollow.
❤️️
It’s an interesting one. I’ve felt differently at different times, actually. I started writing a really long comment here and deleted it because it was so “me, me, me” and I got off tangent.
I think sometimes there’s a tilt towards it being emotional and feeling-based, and other times or for other people, it may be more based in the reality of their situation. For the latter, it doesn’t matter so much what others say, you can’t change how you feel because the situation itself and the problems therein haven’t changed.
xx
That’s a very good point.
Good post… ❤️
I often think people would not straight away be glad if I committed suicide, but life would go on, and maybe they would actually be better off…
I think we just want an end to pain mostly…
It’s too bad that ending pain is so very difficult… ❤️
It is…to end pain, you have to go to a very dark place, and not look back. I’ve been close, but I looked back, and I cannot bear the thought that it would hurt my hubby most of all. That usually is enough to put me off…
❤️❤️❤️
❤️❤️❤️ love you…
Love you too 💕
The thing that always pulled me back was the emotional effect it would have on my children. I never want to cause them hurt. Everything you are saying though, I literally FEEL.
I can definitely see how children would be a very strong reason to stick around.
I think I’d rather not know how my friend who killed herself would have answered these questions. I mean, I know the answer to #1 by definition – I know she knew how many people loved her and cared about her and wanted her around, and she committed suicide. Three years after the fact, I’m not sure I’d even want to know the answers to #2 and #3 even if I could get answers.
I typed an answer from the perspective of having struggled with suicidal thoughts in the past, but I ultimately don’t feel comfortable sharing
That’s totally fair.
This was my immediate response to your questions – no thought involved, just came pouring out of my keyboard – You’d never know I’m having a really good day and am reasonably happy and upbeat today, would’ja LOL
My answers to your questions:
1. No – My life is about ME goddamit. Of course the people in my life want me to stay alive – who the hell else is going to take care of Every.Damn.Thing.
2. No – They would be mightily Inconvenienced. And blame me for their being inconvenienced because how dare I not put THEM first.
2. No – The people in my life are too damn dependant on me to begin with.
I sometimes come across people saying suicide is selfish, and my reaction is nope, what’s selfish is when other people expect someone to put them first and stick around for their sake.
Pretty much my answers too.
The crowd of people (my father included) who think suicide is selfish really don’t understand what that level of pain feels like. I think we each have our way to measure the pain so an outsider may not understand that a particular circumstance they think is no big deal is actually all-consuming for someone else. No one can tell a person that their pain can be easily managed if they can’t actually feel the way that pain feels to the person hurting. My thought has always been that only the person can decide if life is worth living and I agree with you 100% that it is selfish to expect someone to carry pain no one else understands to put someone else first. When I’ve been suicidal, my son who also has felt suicidal permeates my brain and makes me realize that if I go through with it, he will too. So I work hard to find ways out of the darkness so he can too.
I agree, it’s the kind of thing that’s impossible to really get if you haven’t been there. I’m glad you’ve got your son to give you a solid reason to hang on.
Hello Ashley
I agree that calling a crisis line or talking to someone at the moment of your falling, is of no use. I do seek something, I do not know what it is but it is not the emphaty of others, or similar for sure.
1. If someone you cared about said that the world is definitely better with you in it and they want you to stay alive, and you were magically able to know that they sincerely meant it, would that change anything for you? –> I have had and still have trust issues, I only believe my brother and I am still here only because I do not want to hurt him.
2. Do you think others would be traumatized by your death? –> time heals everything and I assumed I would really not care once I was dead and not here anymore.
3. Do you think the important people in your life would be better off without you? –> Yes. I am consumed by the feeling of not being enough for anything or anyone. I also feel like a liability most of the time. I am kind of a unstable bomb in their eyes that can go off anytime. They cannot believe if I am feeling well, they cannot understand if I am feeling horrible.
I have attempted a couple of times, under state of euphoria or with anger and so on. When I was still in my early 20s. Since last year, I have started writing letters. To members in my circle and myself. I also try to plan something good, dependable so I should not see beyond the age I do not wish to see. My issue is, I cannot say I am suicidal but I really do not belong here.
That’s interesting what you mentioned about being an unstable bomb. I think my family probably sees me as an unstable bomb in the sense that deep down they probably realize that I will die by suicide at some point, and when I do die it will at least end the uncertainty of when.
I failed at 2 suicide attempts when I was a teenager, at that point in life my pain was so horrible that I didn’t care who I left behind, but now I’m a mom, and even though sometimes I really wish I were dead, I could never do that to my kids. People do in general think that it is a selfish act, but that pain is something outsiders could never understand. I think when you get to that snapping point unless an angel appears to lift you up, then no matter how you answer those questions you might not be able to stop yourself.
I agree. And it definitely seems like a common thread through comments that kids are a major factor that holds people back from acting when they’re approaching that point.
Yep, they are life savers for sure
1. It would definitely make a difference if I believed I made the world better for someone. If I genuinely believed that they wanted me to stay alive for reasons that mattered to them.
2. My family would definitely be traumatized by my death. My kids wouldn’t be okay.
3. Even though my family would be hurt, I also, in my dark hours, wholeheartedly believe that they would be better off without me. So I try to keep the idea that my death would hurt them in mind during those dark times.
Do you think having parented munchkin #3 added to the mix will make it easier to hold onto the idea that your death would hurt others?
I think that the actionable work I do in taking care of their needs makes me useful and valuable. But does that mean I have value or worth as an individual other than just a means to meet their needs?
That’s where I get stuck.
Yes, I’m useful. I’m “needed”. But anyone can fill the role of meeting the physical needs of someone else.
I think it will still be hard to see myself, me, as an individual, as something of a loss for them that isn’t easily replaceable, If that makes any sense.
That definitely makes sense.
Suicide hotlines for our most desperate moment? Hard pass, but mostly because we are not effective or swayed by technology-mediated communication. We don’t do telehealth, avoid the telephone, etc. When we were weaning off some meds maybe 6 or 7 years ago, we were suicidal AF. We went to a peer “listener” every day of the workweek on our lunch break. This was a stranger who was trained to listen to people with sexual trauma spew about it. And she listened and empathized and was a critical support for us. So suicide “hotline”? Not much chance. Suicide in-person prevention? Yah, we’ve been in-patient quite a bit.
1. If someone you cared about said that the world is definitely better with you in it and they want you to stay alive, and you were magically able to know that they sincerely meant it, would that change anything for you?
Hard to imagine this would be persuasive. We push people away when we are moving into planning, so fuck what anyone else thinks. Ending suffering is our need.
2. Do you think others would be traumatized by your death?
Yes. Older Child would be destroyed. Younger Child might attempt. We endure so much because we don’t want to off-load our shame and trauma onto them.
3. Do you think the important people in your life would be better off without you?
Spouse can do better than us for sure. We fuck up as a parent, but we get Younger Child in ways no one else does, so no. Older Child is like our closest companion as we are to them, so no.
At this point, inpatient for me is a hard no, which will probably cause problems at some point, because it’s not an option that carries any sense of possibility of meeting that need of ending suffering.
I wish the “suicide is selfish” people would read the comments on this post and see just how much people are willing to endure to avoid traumatizing others.